Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

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Master Magnus
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Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » March 31st, 2017, 2:40 pm

Rainn Wilson has joined the cast of Star Trek: Discovery as none other than Harcourt Fenton Mudd: StarTrek.com

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Jjm3233 » March 31st, 2017, 4:53 pm

Well, that is interesting. Doesn't really strike me as Mudd, but I am ready to watch Discovery.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » April 3rd, 2017, 9:56 am

I bet he's going to enjoy the heck out of playing Mudd.

Even despite its stupid delivery system here in the US (The awful CBSInsider service) I'm really looking forward to Discovery. My only hope is that the design of the show skews closer to TOS than Enterprise did.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » April 3rd, 2017, 3:05 pm

Sonequa Martin-Green joins the cast of Star Trek: Discovery as First Officer Michael Burnham:

StarTrek.com: Sonequa Martin-Green Beams Aboard Discovery

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » April 3rd, 2017, 3:11 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 3:05 pm
Sonequa Martin-Green joins the cast of Star Trek: Discovery as First Officer Michael Burnham:

StarTrek.com: Sonequa Martin-Green Beams Aboard Discovery
I wonder why this just finally became official :lol:

From what little I've seen of her on The Walking Dead she seems perfectly capable. I wouldn't mind if the rumors of her being the lead are true.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » April 4th, 2017, 12:20 pm

Kapit wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 3:11 pm
From what little I've seen of her on The Walking Dead she seems perfectly capable. I wouldn't mind if the rumors of her being the lead are true.
Would they really give Jason Isaacs, as captain, more of a secondary role?

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » April 4th, 2017, 12:32 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 12:20 pm
Would they really give Jason Isaacs, as captain, more of a secondary role?
Sure, why not? Secondary doesn't mean non-existent. Just because the show isn't centered around his exploits doesn't preclude him not being a big part of the happenings.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » April 4th, 2017, 1:35 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 12:20 pm
Kapit wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 3:11 pm
From what little I've seen of her on The Walking Dead she seems perfectly capable. I wouldn't mind if the rumors of her being the lead are true.
Would they really give Jason Isaacs, as captain, more of a secondary role?
Yes. The people behind the show have stated that the captain isn't the lead character of the show. Sonequa Martin- Green's character will be.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » April 4th, 2017, 4:06 pm

Kapit wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 12:32 pm
Sure, why not? Secondary doesn't mean non-existent. Just because the show isn't centered around his exploits doesn't preclude him not being a big part of the happenings.
I never said anything about him being non-existent. In general, I'm puzzled about establishing a "lead character" in what has typically been an ensemble show. Being XO, of course I'd expect her role to be significant. But I'd expect the same for the captain. Not sure I understand singling out a character to be the lead.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » April 10th, 2017, 10:41 am

I'm on season 3 of Enterprise and boy oh boy am I enjoying it WAY more than I did TNG. When I have a little extra spending money I'm going to grab the model of the NX-01 Refit that never made it into the show.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » April 24th, 2017, 10:01 am

Finally finished Enterprise. I really enjoyed it and don't understand why it's so maligned.

Outside of both awful versions of the theme song, the only thing I disliked is that they didn't give Archer his big speech at the end.

Friggin Riker ruining two shows.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » July 31st, 2017, 2:12 pm

So, now we might now what Nicholas Meyer's new Star Trek project is: A sequel to TOS "Space Seed" and a prequel to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan taking place on Ceti Alpha V with Khan and his men. Not too sure about that...: Geek Exchange: BREAKING: Nicholas Meyer Working on Khan Limited TV Series

Kapit wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 10:01 am
Finally finished Enterprise. I really enjoyed it and don't understand why it's so maligned.

Outside of both awful versions of the theme song, the only thing I disliked is that they didn't give Archer his big speech at the end.

Friggin Riker ruining two shows.
Yes, but the last episode isn't fully canon (well, at least not in the Kelvinverse). Otherwise, I agree. I don't think Enterprise was that bad. And I do like the first version of the theme song (the second is awful).

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » August 9th, 2017, 10:33 am

Master Magnus wrote:
July 31st, 2017, 2:12 pm
Yes, but the last episode isn't fully canon (well, at least not in the Kelvinverse). Otherwise, I agree. I don't think Enterprise was that bad. And I do like the first version of the theme song (the second is awful).
I'm considering picking up the Enterprise box set at some point when its at a decent price, and giving it another chance. I dumped on Berman and Braga for years, but more recently I've tended to put more of that blame on Berman. I was genuinely glad to meet Braga at the convention last week. If it hadn't been an autograph line with tons waiting behind me, I'd have loved to have had a conversation with him (and offered an apology for my past opinions of him and his efforts). But I do find myself wanting to go back and watch the series start to finish. I saw the entire final season, but only a handful of episodes of the first 3 seasons.

I arrived late Wednesday for the convention, so I missed the Discovery panels, which is too bad. I haven't followed the production too closely, and I've been somewhat skeptical, or at least with a wait-and-see attitude. But I'm maybe a bit more interested after seeing some of the costumes last week.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » August 10th, 2017, 11:08 am

borgmatrix wrote:
August 9th, 2017, 10:33 am
Master Magnus wrote:
July 31st, 2017, 2:12 pm
Yes, but the last episode isn't fully canon (well, at least not in the Kelvinverse). Otherwise, I agree. I don't think Enterprise was that bad. And I do like the first version of the theme song (the second is awful).
I'm considering picking up the Enterprise box set at some point when its at a decent price, and giving it another chance. I dumped on Berman and Braga for years, but more recently I've tended to put more of that blame on Berman. I was genuinely glad to meet Braga at the convention last week. If it hadn't been an autograph line with tons waiting behind me, I'd have loved to have had a conversation with him (and offered an apology for my past opinions of him and his efforts). But I do find myself wanting to go back and watch the series start to finish. I saw the entire final season, but only a handful of episodes of the first 3 seasons.

I arrived late Wednesday for the convention, so I missed the Discovery panels, which is too bad. I haven't followed the production too closely, and I've been somewhat skeptical, or at least with a wait-and-see attitude. But I'm maybe a bit more interested after seeing some of the costumes last week.
Swedish public service television aired Enterprise but not the last season so I watched it on Netflix when it became available there. The cancellation was premature and the show got really good during its last season (even though I think they may have tried to cram a bit too many explanations into it and I wasn't a fan of the alien nazis). Would really have liked to see the Earth-Romulan war...

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » August 10th, 2017, 12:50 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
August 10th, 2017, 11:08 am
Swedish public service television aired Enterprise but not the last season so I watched it on Netflix when it became available there. The cancellation was premature and the show got really good during its last season (even though I think they may have tried to cram a bit too many explanations into it and I wasn't a fan of the alien nazis). Would really have liked to see the Earth-Romulan war...
As far as it being premature, I can't say I'm surprised. If that final season had been its first, I think it would have been primed to have a great run. But, unfortunately, the writing staff squandered its first two seasons on stuff that was far too similar to past Trek and didn't try to elevate things much until season 3. Season 4 was too little, too late. And, yeah, seeing that war with the romulans would have been more welcomed, I think, that the conflict with the Xindi.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » September 25th, 2017, 11:42 am

Watched the first two episodes of Discovery last night. I enjoyed them. Probably not going to pay for the terrible CBS All Access service for it but will look for other ways to purchase it in the future.

As a filthy casual fan of Trek I felt Discovery got off to a good start. It seems that most of the footage seen in the trailers is from the first two episodes so it would seem that there's a lot of stuff we haven't been exposed to yet. Characters are solid. Writing is a little iffy in spots. Obviously the state of the tech is far too "advanced" in comparison to where it ends up with the Enterprise but they do try and hand-wave it away by clearly stating that the Shenzhou is an older ship. I'm hoping that means the Discovery itself will have a more minimalist aesthetic to bring it in line with where the tech "should" be.

Otherwise, I felt they did a good job establishing the universe as it is at that time. I'm not terribly invested in Trek lore so I don't understand people complaining about the Klingons. They seem like a solid group of villains for the show. I LOVE that we get a big ol' starship battle in the second episode - something I found to be lacking in almost all other versions of Trek that I've seen - and CGI has advanced enough that the ships actually look like they're moving!

I'm looking forward to eventually buying the Blu-Ray.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » September 25th, 2017, 2:51 pm

Kapit wrote:
September 25th, 2017, 11:42 am
Watched the first two episodes of Discovery last night. I enjoyed them. Probably not going to pay for the terrible CBS All Access service for it but will look for other ways to purchase it in the future.
I signed up for the 1 week free trial. Saw the first episode last night and will check out the second tonight probably. But I don't have any intent to continue with All Access.

I didn't care much of the first episode. Felt lifeless. Felt like there were a lot of stupid decisions in how the characters approached that unknown object. Didn't find the characters particularly interesting. I don't mind the look of the Klingons, but didn't find anything particularly interesting about their scenes after the opening few minutes with them. Didn't like the show visually either. It felt somewhat claustrophobic.

I suppose I'll eventually see the rest of the show, though I'm not sure when or how. But very underwhelmed so far.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » October 7th, 2017, 1:37 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
September 25th, 2017, 2:51 pm
Kapit wrote:
September 25th, 2017, 11:42 am
Watched the first two episodes of Discovery last night. I enjoyed them. Probably not going to pay for the terrible CBS All Access service for it but will look for other ways to purchase it in the future.
I signed up for the 1 week free trial. Saw the first episode last night and will check out the second tonight probably. But I don't have any intent to continue with All Access.

I didn't care much of the first episode. Felt lifeless. Felt like there were a lot of stupid decisions in how the characters approached that unknown object. Didn't find the characters particularly interesting. I don't mind the look of the Klingons, but didn't find anything particularly interesting about their scenes after the opening few minutes with them. Didn't like the show visually either. It felt somewhat claustrophobic.

I suppose I'll eventually see the rest of the show, though I'm not sure when or how. But very underwhelmed so far.
"Lifeless", that's a good way to describe this dystopian series. It doesn't feel much at all like Star Trek.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » October 18th, 2017, 10:05 am

Master Magnus wrote:
October 7th, 2017, 1:37 pm
"Lifeless", that's a good way to describe this dystopian series. It doesn't feel much at all like Star Trek.
I'm open to something darker. I don't mind that. But it feels like they're barreling forward haphazardly and without much effort to allow the characters or story to breathe.

The one-week free trial I used lasted about 8 days, so I was able to check out the first 3 episodes, and I was unimpressed overall and disappointed. One of the producers seemed to be thrilled with using the first two episodes for something that would normally be in backstory. I wish they left the start of the war and the mutiny in backstory. That way we could have actually started with the Discovery and her crew, instead of wasting two episodes on a ship and crew that wasn't going to be the focus. We get to the third episode, which immediately gets into mysterious happenings on another ship and questionable research the two ships are involved in, and big stuff from a story perspective without a lot of context/answers; while also not knowing this crew or its characters. Its hard to care at all when that's the case.

On top of that, they made the choice of giving Michael Burnham a Vulcan upbringing, so we also hardly know her because she's showing little emotionally.

Instead of rushing through so much plot in 3 episodes, I wish they had started in episode 1 with Burnham arriving on Discovery, filling us in on the context of the start of the war and her actions on her previous ship through dialogue. That would have allowed 3 episodes to get to know the Discovery crew and develop Burnham's interactions with them, and to explore what the ship is involved in more gradually over those episodes.

Also, I mentioned stupidity in the first two episodes. More of it in episode 3. So Burnham and the other prisoners are on a ship piloted by one individual, and it's that person that goes outside the ship to clear off that crap...and gets blown out into space? Starfleet personnel seem so incredibly stupid in these episodes. My brother and I joked about this show maybe explaining how this collection of morons got transformed into the Federation we know in the other shows. Maybe the war with the Klingons will wipe out all the dummies and allow some more intelligent officers to move up.

My brother summed the show up succinctly by saying the writing's not very good. I agree.

While I do wish we had it on Netflix over here so I could keep up with it and see how it progresses, I'm not feeling so bad about missing out based on the first 3 episodes. CBS emailed me with an offer to sign up for two months at half price, and I was tempted, but given the quality of the episodes up to that point, I decided it wasn't even worth that.

I'm honestly surprised that it was getting good reviews out of the gate. I'm not sure if that's just because its been so long since Star Trek has been on TV and over-colored by the excitement of it being back or what. I wouldn't be surprised as the season winds on if that enthusiasm starts to wane (unless the show does get better).
Last edited by borgmatrix on October 30th, 2017, 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » October 23rd, 2017, 2:49 pm

borgmatrix wrote:I'm open to something darker. I don't mind that. But it feels like they're barreling forward haphazardly and without much effort to allow the characters or story to breathe.
Star Trek has always been about optimism for the future, of teamwork and exploration. What we've gotten so far is more of the darkness that has plagued the various franchises for the past decade. There's barely any humor in any of them anymore and they take themselves far too seriously.

ST:Discovery feels pretty much the same way. The show is practically devoid of humor, the entire season is devoted to the war against the Klingons (heck, DS9 managed both) and the producers are being more or less dishonest with the audience: This show has nothing to do with the "old" Star Trek (about which the producers doesn't really know much and have done pretty bad research), and the sooner the pretending stops the better. I also can't understand why they made this into yet another prequel when we've already had one: Star Trek: Enterprise. This would have worked better as a sequel set in the 25th Century.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » October 30th, 2017, 11:10 am

Master Magnus wrote:
October 23rd, 2017, 2:49 pm
Star Trek has always been about optimism for the future, of teamwork and exploration.
And there's no reason this show can't get into those things as it proceeds. Again, I don't want to judge the entire show in the content of just a few episodes. I think its fair game to pursue darker, war-themed storytelling. I wouldn't want the entire show to be that, and I don't get the impression it will be.

At this stage, I think the larger story is weak writing and lack of respect for continuity with what we know.
...and the producers are being more or less dishonest with the audience: This show has nothing to do with the "old" Star Trek (about which the producers doesn't really know much and have done pretty bad research), and the sooner the pretending stops the better.
I'm not sure I know what you mean. Are you saying this isn't really the Prime Universe?
I also can't understand why they made this into yet another prequel when we've already had one: Star Trek: Enterprise. This would have worked better as a sequel set in the 25th Century.
Yeah, I'd prefer something set in the future, too. Maybe they were worried about having to keep all the continuity straight from TNG, DS9, and Voyager if they went that route, and chose pre-TOS to avoid that. Of course, they're still mucking up continuity.

I don't know that they really care about continuity. I think they just want to do what they want. And, unfortunately, they're not doing that very well. I'd be forgiving of things not connecting if they were delivering entertaining, well-crafted episodes/stories. But through the first 3 episodes, they weren't.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » October 31st, 2017, 3:27 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
October 30th, 2017, 11:10 am
Master Magnus wrote:
October 23rd, 2017, 2:49 pm
Star Trek has always been about optimism for the future, of teamwork and exploration.
And there's no reason this show can't get into those things as it proceeds. Again, I don't want to judge the entire show in the content of just a few episodes. I think its fair game to pursue darker, war-themed storytelling. I wouldn't want the entire show to be that, and I don't get the impression it will be.
Sorry, but to me it isn't Star Trek. We are also shown a crew that can't work together. While I'm glad Roddenberry's stupid rule that there can't be conflicts among the main characters is gone, I want to see a group of people working together to solve problems and that humanity has progressed, not having Starfleet officers referring to prisoners as "animals" (and prisoners doing hard labor? What happened to the what was established earlier with criminals being treated). And the entire first season will be devoted to the war.
borgmatrix wrote:At this stage, I think the larger story is weak writing and lack of respect for continuity with what we know.
Which leads me to...
borgmatrix wrote:
...and the producers are being more or less dishonest with the audience: This show has nothing to do with the "old" Star Trek (about which the producers doesn't really know much and have done pretty bad research), and the sooner the pretending stops the better.
I'm not sure I know what you mean. Are you saying this isn't really the Prime Universe?
What I am saying is that the producers of this show aren't familiar with basic Star Trek continuity. From minor issues that were laid out in the TOS and TNG Writer's Guide that the viewscreens aren't windows (I blame Jar Jar Abrams for that :P) to yet another redesign of the Klingons to the use of more advanced technology, such as holographic communication, that we've ever seen on Trek. Sure, we can't be replicating the sixties show, but trying to keep things a little more in line.
borgmatrix wrote:
I also can't understand why they made this into yet another prequel when we've already had one: Star Trek: Enterprise. This would have worked better as a sequel set in the 25th Century.
Yeah, I'd prefer something set in the future, too. Maybe they were worried about having to keep all the continuity straight from TNG, DS9, and Voyager if they went that route, and chose pre-TOS to avoid that. Of course, they're still mucking up continuity.

I don't know that they really care about continuity. I think they just want to do what they want. And, unfortunately, they're not doing that very well. I'd be forgiving of things not connecting if they were delivering entertaining, well-crafted episodes/stories. But through the first 3 episodes, they weren't.
The writing is, at times, atrocious. This week's episode, Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad, was particularly bad in this regard with huge plot holes and an ending that made one wonder why the heck they even need the spore drive for... And having a TOS-character acting that much out of character...

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » November 1st, 2017, 12:08 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
October 31st, 2017, 3:27 pm
Sorry, but to me it isn't Star Trek. We are also shown a crew that can't work together. While I'm glad Roddenberry's stupid rule that there can't be conflicts among the main characters is gone, I want to see a group of people working together to solve problems and that humanity has progressed, not having Starfleet officers referring to prisoners as "animals" (and prisoners doing hard labor? What happened to the what was established earlier with criminals being treated). And the entire first season will be devoted to the war.
Continuity is definitely a problem. I haven't watched beyond episode 3, so I can't comment on some of the newer details that have come up. In general, I think RDM during the DS9 days did a great job of voicing that ST can't be put in a box and that its about a lot of things. I'll continue to favor writers pursuing what they want to within the ST universe, but with an expectation of quality storytelling. And, yes, a reasonable respect from canon/history/continuity.

This is a series, not a couple standalone movies or a miniseries, so I'd rather give more time to see what kinds of material is a part of this over multiple years before I pull out the criticism that it isn't Trek.

But I expect quality and good storytelling, not the stupidity and poor writing that you seem to indicate continues to plague the show.
What I am saying is that the producers of this show aren't familiar with basic Star Trek continuity. From minor issues that were laid out in the TOS and TNG Writer's Guide that the viewscreens aren't windows (I blame Jar Jar Abrams for that :P) to yet another redesign of the Klingons to the use of more advanced technology, such as holographic communication, that we've ever seen on Trek. Sure, we can't be replicating the sixties show, but trying to keep things a little more in line.
It would be nice if they made more of an effort there. I can understand new looks and a different presentation. This kind of stuff is more window dressing for me, so I'm more forgiving and care more about the content and quality of writing.
The writing is, at times, atrocious. This week's episode, Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad, was particularly bad in this regard with huge plot holes and an ending that made one wonder why the heck they even need the spore drive for... And having a TOS-character acting that much out of character...
Sad. I'm finding myself less and less interested in even checking this out on disc down the road. I never thought we'd get something that I'd find worse than Voyager, but thus far, as you've said, Discovery has been "atrocious". Incoherent, rushed, badly written, and seemingly in another universe/galaxy compared to the rest of ST.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » November 16th, 2017, 1:26 pm

The last two episodes (including the cliffhanger before the mid-season break) were actually pretty good! :)

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » December 4th, 2017, 12:36 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
November 16th, 2017, 1:26 pm
The last two episodes (including the cliffhanger before the mid-season break) were actually pretty good! :)
That's good to hear. At some point, I'll check out the rest of the season.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » December 8th, 2017, 12:49 pm

I first thought this was a joke...: Deadline

Quentin Tarantino doing Star Trek?! :o

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Kapit » December 8th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
December 8th, 2017, 12:49 pm
I first thought this was a joke...: Deadline

Quentin Tarantino doing Star Trek?! :o
Ugh, no thanks.
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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Talcy » December 8th, 2017, 4:41 pm

Wow.

Paramount really don't know what to do with it, do they?

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by Master Magnus » December 9th, 2017, 11:34 am

Talcy wrote:
December 8th, 2017, 4:41 pm
Wow.

Paramount really don't know what to do with it, do they?
No, that is evident.

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Re: Star Trek - From TOS to Discovery and Beyond

Post by borgmatrix » December 11th, 2017, 11:21 am

Master Magnus wrote:
December 8th, 2017, 12:49 pm
I first thought this was a joke...: Deadline

Quentin Tarantino doing Star Trek?! :o
I have no issues with this. Never opposed to seeing different takes on things. Based on that article, it looks like Tarantino made a pitch to Paramount (as opposed to the latter seeking him out), so I see that as being good in speaking to Tarantino being motivated and genuinely interested. From a creativity standpoint, I'm interested in seeing where he'd go with this and what kind of story or corner of the Trek universe we'd see.

I remember he had said some years ago that he was aiming to finish his career around the 10th movie. I wonder where we are now? Already past 10? Or would this and the Manson movie be it?

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