Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

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Darth Bangkok
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Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Darth Bangkok »

In TFA, we are introduced to the First Order, which seems to be the remnant of the Empire as they use all their old stuff and keep improving on it. The First Order is in control of a small part of the galaxy and the New Republic the rest. A bunch of people don't want the First Order to continue as they see it as the evil successor to the Empire. They are the "resistance" even though, with Leia as its leader, it really seems like they are coming from the New Republic and not actually resisters from one of the New Order worlds.

During TFA, the New Order gets pissed at the Resistance and attacks the New Republic for some reason. Because they secretly support the Resistance it is said in the nazi inspired speech.

Now in the TLJ, which takes place immediately after TFA, the New Republic is completely over-run? When did that happen? In a galaxy full of planets, a few are destroyed and the whole republic collapses?

Why haven't the republic taken in the Resistance to fight along with them? Why aren't the Resistance now better equipped and manned with support from the republic or whats left of it? The highest levels of the First Order are spending all their time chasing 400 Resistance fighters and the rest of the galaxy is just laying down before the First Order?
Last edited by Darth Bangkok on December 18th, 2017, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Master Shrive
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Re: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Master Shrive »

Might need to mention about spoilers for TLJ in the title at this stage. However, I was thinking the exact same thing. How did we get from 30 years of rebuilding to the last Rebels being wooshed away on transports? Were the planets destroyed last movie that important to the Republic that they tore out the core of the organisation? Things seemed to change quite quickly between movies as to who was being pursued by whom and why.
Darth Bangkok
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Darth Bangkok »

You're right, thank you. I added the word to the thread title. :cheers:
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Master Magnus
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Master Magnus »

Thanks to the incredibly poor worldbuilding in TFA and TLJ we know next to nothing. The galaxy just seem to have rolled over to the FO that somehow have enough forces to subdue the entire galaxy (I'm not buying the crapiola from Battlefront 2 that mentions "thousands" of stormtroopers which of course would be a drop in an ocean world).

Even though the Republic was, in practice, completely pacified with only a smallish fleet remaining at Hosnian Prime, there must've been systems with local defense/anti-piracy forces that could put up a fight and some major worlds with assets to protect...
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Kapit »

Darth Bangkok wrote: December 16th, 2017, 4:32 pm Now in the TLJ, which takes place immediately after TFA, the New Republic is completely over-run? When did that happen? In a galaxy full of planets, a few are destroyed and the whole republic collapses?
The entirety of the New Republic government was destroyed in the Hosnian system.
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bango31
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by bango31 »

Kapit wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:52 am
Darth Bangkok wrote: December 16th, 2017, 4:32 pm Now in the TLJ, which takes place immediately after TFA, the New Republic is completely over-run? When did that happen? In a galaxy full of planets, a few are destroyed and the whole republic collapses?
The entirety of the New Republic government was destroyed in the Hosnian system.
I feel like that is kind of a huge deal and it was explained and moved past in a manner of like 10 seconds. Kind of crappy story telling there.

Also, to the OP's question....I'm in the same boat. I had this discussion today with a friend of mine who saw TLJ on opening night with me. We both think the explanation as to the current political climate in the galaxy has been horrific, and why should anyone care about the fight between the Resistance and the First Order? What is the First Order doing that's so bad? In A New Hope we saw them blow up a planet. We knew they were bad. But now, we have no explanation as to anyone's motivation or objectives or anything.
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Kapit »

bango31 wrote: December 19th, 2017, 12:46 am I feel like that is kind of a huge deal and it was explained and moved past in a manner of like 10 seconds. Kind of crappy story telling there.

Also, to the OP's question....I'm in the same boat. I had this discussion today with a friend of mine who saw TLJ on opening night with me. We both think the explanation as to the current political climate in the galaxy has been horrific, and why should anyone care about the fight between the Resistance and the First Order? What is the First Order doing that's so bad? In A New Hope we saw them blow up a planet. We knew they were bad. But now, we have no explanation as to anyone's motivation or objectives or anything.
I feel like their goal of "rule to galaxy" is pretty well-stated throughout both movies, up to and including the point in which they blow up an entire star system in order to take out the Republic all at once.

As far as rushing past the concept of an entire star system being wiped out, I don't disagree there. I put that on Abrams for not bothering to explain why that mattered at all. As for why it isn't addressed in TLJ, what more do we really need than what's in the crawl? The Republic's gone, the First Order is taking over, there's just a small handful of Resistance fighters left. That's all the information we need to process the story that's being told.
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bango31
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by bango31 »

Kapit wrote: December 19th, 2017, 7:30 am
bango31 wrote: December 19th, 2017, 12:46 am I feel like that is kind of a huge deal and it was explained and moved past in a manner of like 10 seconds. Kind of crappy story telling there.

Also, to the OP's question....I'm in the same boat. I had this discussion today with a friend of mine who saw TLJ on opening night with me. We both think the explanation as to the current political climate in the galaxy has been horrific, and why should anyone care about the fight between the Resistance and the First Order? What is the First Order doing that's so bad? In A New Hope we saw them blow up a planet. We knew they were bad. But now, we have no explanation as to anyone's motivation or objectives or anything.
I feel like their goal of "rule to galaxy" is pretty well-stated throughout both movies, up to and including the point in which they blow up an entire star system in order to take out the Republic all at once.

As far as rushing past the concept of an entire star system being wiped out, I don't disagree there. I put that on Abrams for not bothering to explain why that mattered at all. As for why it isn't addressed in TLJ, what more do we really need than what's in the crawl? The Republic's gone, the First Order is taking over, there's just a small handful of Resistance fighters left. That's all the information we need to process the story that's being told.
I agree their goal is well-stated, but I guess I didn't explain myself very well before. Basically, who is the First Order and how are they so powerful if the Republic replaced the Empire? Are they remnants of the Empire or a new thing or...? My issue is that I think these are questions we need answered given how ROTJ ended and the 30 or so year gap in the timeline. I can accept that they're a reincarnation of the Empire put together by Snoke or whomever, but am I nuts to think that needs a bit of clarification at the onset of the new trilogy? We kind of just jumped right in with zero back story for the last 30 years.
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Siamese Sith »

bango31 wrote: December 20th, 2017, 12:12 am
Kapit wrote: December 19th, 2017, 7:30 am
bango31 wrote: December 19th, 2017, 12:46 am I feel like that is kind of a huge deal and it was explained and moved past in a manner of like 10 seconds. Kind of crappy story telling there.

Also, to the OP's question....I'm in the same boat. I had this discussion today with a friend of mine who saw TLJ on opening night with me. We both think the explanation as to the current political climate in the galaxy has been horrific, and why should anyone care about the fight between the Resistance and the First Order? What is the First Order doing that's so bad? In A New Hope we saw them blow up a planet. We knew they were bad. But now, we have no explanation as to anyone's motivation or objectives or anything.
I feel like their goal of "rule to galaxy" is pretty well-stated throughout both movies, up to and including the point in which they blow up an entire star system in order to take out the Republic all at once.

As far as rushing past the concept of an entire star system being wiped out, I don't disagree there. I put that on Abrams for not bothering to explain why that mattered at all. As for why it isn't addressed in TLJ, what more do we really need than what's in the crawl? The Republic's gone, the First Order is taking over, there's just a small handful of Resistance fighters left. That's all the information we need to process the story that's being told.
I agree their goal is well-stated, but I guess I didn't explain myself very well before. Basically, who is the First Order and how are they so powerful if the Republic replaced the Empire? Are they remnants of the Empire or a new thing or...? My issue is that I think these are questions we need answered given how ROTJ ended and the 30 or so year gap in the timeline. I can accept that they're a reincarnation of the Empire put together by Snoke or whomever, but am I nuts to think that needs a bit of clarification at the onset of the new trilogy? We kind of just jumped right in with zero back story for the last 30 years.
This trilogy began by steering so far away from the PT they never realized the importance politics (interpersonal as well as socioeconomical) plays in Star Wars!
This trilogy feels so detached from the OT and PT and used nostalgia to get us old folks into the theaters.
I’m afraid Disney is relying on other forms of media (video games, comics, novels) to fill in these glaring gaps in the ST story.
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Master Magnus
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by Master Magnus »

Siamese Sith wrote: December 27th, 2017, 12:35 pm
bango31 wrote: December 20th, 2017, 12:12 am
Kapit wrote: December 19th, 2017, 7:30 am

I feel like their goal of "rule to galaxy" is pretty well-stated throughout both movies, up to and including the point in which they blow up an entire star system in order to take out the Republic all at once.

As far as rushing past the concept of an entire star system being wiped out, I don't disagree there. I put that on Abrams for not bothering to explain why that mattered at all. As for why it isn't addressed in TLJ, what more do we really need than what's in the crawl? The Republic's gone, the First Order is taking over, there's just a small handful of Resistance fighters left. That's all the information we need to process the story that's being told.
I agree their goal is well-stated, but I guess I didn't explain myself very well before. Basically, who is the First Order and how are they so powerful if the Republic replaced the Empire? Are they remnants of the Empire or a new thing or...? My issue is that I think these are questions we need answered given how ROTJ ended and the 30 or so year gap in the timeline. I can accept that they're a reincarnation of the Empire put together by Snoke or whomever, but am I nuts to think that needs a bit of clarification at the onset of the new trilogy? We kind of just jumped right in with zero back story for the last 30 years.
This trilogy began by steering so far away from the PT they never realized the importance politics (interpersonal as well as socioeconomical) plays in Star Wars!
This trilogy feels so detached from the OT and PT and used nostalgia to get us old folks into the theaters.
I’m afraid Disney is relying on other forms of media (video games, comics, novels) to fill in these glaring gaps in the ST story.
Exactly. While I don't think the politics of the PT would've been necessary, some exposition and real world building would've been needed.
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Re: Spoilers: So what is the situation in the galaxy?

Post by borgmatrix »

bango31 wrote: December 20th, 2017, 12:12 am I agree their goal is well-stated, but I guess I didn't explain myself very well before. Basically, who is the First Order and how are they so powerful if the Republic replaced the Empire? Are they remnants of the Empire or a new thing or...? My issue is that I think these are questions we need answered given how ROTJ ended and the 30 or so year gap in the timeline. I can accept that they're a reincarnation of the Empire put together by Snoke or whomever, but am I nuts to think that needs a bit of clarification at the onset of the new trilogy? We kind of just jumped right in with zero back story for the last 30 years.
Not nuts at all. But it wasn't a thought at all in the minds of Abrams and Kasdan. They were brought in late to write, and Abrams chose to use ANH as a template. Because ANH begins with the Empire searching for a droid with information, that's where TFA begins...with no thought whatsoever as to how/why the Empire still exists as the First Order. For similar reasons, as I've written about before, the final act of TFA features a massive planet destroying weapon simply because ANH also did. It was completely over their heads that the reason it was there at the end of ANH was seeded in the early ANH plot point that R2 had the plans for the Death Star...the beginnings of an arc that would lead to the Rebels facing the DS with the info gleaned from that plans to utilize. TFA's droid had the map to Skywalker (not DS plans), and yet TFA still concludes with a battle against (basically) the Death Star when Act III should have been focused on the finding of Luke Skywalker in some significant way.

There's no back story because they didn't think of any. They just used ANH to map out their new movie without any understanding/appreciation of why ANH was constructed the way it was and that that movie was the first of that trilogy and not meant to also be the start of this new trilogy...which is in a completely different place (or should have been) following ROTJ.

I'm truly stunned by such carelessness given how special the OT is considered/revered.
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