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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 5th, 2018, 8:57 am
by bango31
I think, to state the obvious, Disney would have been much better served by selecting writers and directors ahead of time and fleshing out a coherent overall story arc much like the authors of the New Jedi Order book series did. While each author was free to explore the finer details of their own novels, there were parameters within which they had to operate; while others may feel differently, it created a fantastic narrative that stretched across 19 or 20 books. Instead, they decided to say f it and see what happens.

It's too late to change anything at this point, but what a tremendous oversight by Disney.

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 5th, 2018, 9:08 am
by bango31
Master Magnus wrote:
January 4th, 2018, 2:56 pm
bango31 wrote:I couldn't agree more with the posts about the poor quality of the new books. I hated the Aftermath books. I thought Tarkin was quite good. Currently reading Phasma and I'm struggling to keep going. I don't know what it is with the present-tense, simplistic style but I do not like it.

I also agree that we shouldn't have to turn to secondary sources to flesh out the universe. The books, comics, and games should be supplementary at best. We shouldn't have to suffer through one bad trilogy of books after another to understand what the hell happened over the last 30 years.
Yes, I don't think the prose worked at all. I've read quite a few novels written in present tense, but the execution in the Aftermath book was horrible. There were also the references to Earthly life that took me out of the story.
I just read a chapter in "Phasma" where the one character said a protein pack "tastes like chicken."

WHEN DID CHICKENS MIGRATE TO THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE?

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 6th, 2018, 5:32 am
by Master Magnus
bango31 wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:08 am
Master Magnus wrote:
January 4th, 2018, 2:56 pm
bango31 wrote:I couldn't agree more with the posts about the poor quality of the new books. I hated the Aftermath books. I thought Tarkin was quite good. Currently reading Phasma and I'm struggling to keep going. I don't know what it is with the present-tense, simplistic style but I do not like it.

I also agree that we shouldn't have to turn to secondary sources to flesh out the universe. The books, comics, and games should be supplementary at best. We shouldn't have to suffer through one bad trilogy of books after another to understand what the hell happened over the last 30 years.
Yes, I don't think the prose worked at all. I've read quite a few novels written in present tense, but the execution in the Aftermath book was horrible. There were also the references to Earthly life that took me out of the story.
I just read a chapter in "Phasma" where the one character said a protein pack "tastes like chicken."

WHEN DID CHICKENS MIGRATE TO THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE?
Well, the Star Wars novelization mentioned ducks and dogs, but I can forgive that given its age. The Aftermath-trilogy was far worse with its references to snow globes, hamsters, direct references to Earth mythology and modern American slang. The writing is also atrocious:
She's spinning, once more winding through the air, this time in an uncontrolled spiral, but she does have some control.
So, she (Norra) was spinning in an uncontrolled spiral, but still had "some control"? Which is it?

It also suffers from superfluous descriptions:
The TIE wibbles and wobbles through the air, careening drunkenly across the Myrrann rooftops - it zigzags herkily-jerkily out of sight
To get back on topic: I agree with many of the points in this video and I've also mentioned some of them: YouTube

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 6th, 2018, 5:10 pm
by borgmatrix
Master Magnus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 5:32 am
Well, the Star Wars novelization mentioned ducks and dogs, but I can forgive that given its age. The Aftermath-trilogy was far worse with its references to snow globes, hamsters, direct references to Earth mythology and modern American slang. The writing is also atrocious:
She's spinning, once more winding through the air, this time in an uncontrolled spiral, but she does have some control.
So, she (Norra) was spinning in an uncontrolled spiral, but still had "some control"? Which is it?

It also suffers from superfluous descriptions:
The TIE wibbles and wobbles through the air, careening drunkenly across the Myrrann rooftops - it zigzags herkily-jerkily out of sight
Are you serious? :laugh: :lol: Oh, man...I'm staying away from the novels.

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 7th, 2018, 3:32 pm
by Master Magnus
^Yes. I had also hoped that the "Your mother" jokes would be confined to those novels, but alas...

According to The Digital Bits it's rumored that TLJ wil be released on DVD/Blu-Ray/4K Blu-Ray on March 27:
The Digital Bits

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 8th, 2018, 6:53 pm
by bango31
Master Magnus wrote:
January 7th, 2018, 3:32 pm
^Yes. I had also hoped that the "Your mother" jokes would be confined to those novels, but alas...

According to The Digital Bits it's rumored that TLJ wil be released on DVD/Blu-Ray/4K Blu-Ray on March 27:
The Digital Bits
That seems like a pretty quick turnaround, no?

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 9th, 2018, 4:00 am
by Master Shrive
I don't think anyone's posted a link to this article, but I thought it was an interesting take on some of the events in TLJ: http://bigshinyrobot.com/60239/luke-sky ... last-jedi/

Not sure it will change anyone's minds about the quality of the storyline, but it might give people something to ponder.

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 9th, 2018, 10:12 am
by borgmatrix
Master Shrive wrote:
January 9th, 2018, 4:00 am
I don't think anyone's posted a link to this article, but I thought it was an interesting take on some of the events in TLJ: http://bigshinyrobot.com/60239/luke-sky ... last-jedi/

Not sure it will change anyone's minds about the quality of the storyline, but it might give people something to ponder.
Thanks for posting that MS. Interesting read. Here are some quotes from the article and my thoughts:
And here he sees a darkness greater than anything he could have ever imagined. And a future where all of his loved ones are killed and the Jedi order he cared about burned to the ground. What happened the last time he was confronted with an image of this? The last time this happened, he was in the Death Star Throne Room and Vader taunted him with this vision of the future and he lost control. He ignited his saber out of instinct and fought. With rage and anger. But he pulled himself back from doing the thing he swore he wouldn't do: kill his own father. Then he tosses his lightsaber and says, essentially, "kill me if you have to, but I'll die like a Jedi."
Part of my problem here is that Luke went through these kinds of crises/experiences and learned from the within the OT. And that makes it frustrating to see an older Luke portrayed in a way that doesn't seem to fit with that. The author of this article asks "when was the last time he was confronted with this image" and answers that it was in the throne room in ROTJ. Look, Luke first encountered a vision of his friends in trouble in ESB and rushed out against Yoda's advice. We all saw how that went at the end. Though it has to be said, Luke handled himself well against Vader, heard a truth he ultimately needed to, and survived the encounter. In any case, Luke in ROTJ has learned from that experience. He senses/feels that he is a danger to his friends by being with him (as Vader can sense him), and turns himself over to Imperial forces. Incredible thing for someone to do. He has been told he has to kill Vader, but he senses good in him and is determined to pull him back. And when he experiences rage and hate, and realizes it, he tosses his saber aside and is proud to accept death to stay true to the Light.

So in the OT, he's already been the impetuous young Jedi rushing into action without thinking (ESB), and then when he faces danger again in ROTJ, its with a cooler head, calmer, wiser. Consider how noble he is in ROTJ: Turning himself in to avoid endangering his friends; determined to not kill Vader but turn him to the Light; recognizing being on the verge of strking in hate and tossing his saber away. Again, I don't believe in the Luke of TLJ as an extension of this character.
Now, he goes to Ben's hut and sees that future all over again. And, as before, his saber ignites. And this is startling to him. He's instantly ashamed of himself and must deal with the consequence of that split-second consideration. We know he'd NEVER kill his nephew. Ben doesn't. Some have said that Luke wouldn't consider this again, but facing the Dark side of yourself isn't a "one time and it's over thing." It's a constant. We learn and we grow and we constantly have to reevaluate that.
Yes, we learn and grow. As I pointed out above, Luke was learning and growing in the OT. There's all this talk of the darkness Luke sensed in Ben. Hey, Vader was remarkably dark. Luke wasn't focused on the darkness he was sensing from Vader, but on the LIght and the chance to save him. I don't buy into Luke not sensing/recognizing the conflict and Light within him that could be grown.
And here's where Luke decided it was ultimately the right thing for the Galaxy to end the Jedi and quit the Force. Because these cycles of violence will happen between good and evil jockeying for power. And the constant in Luke's view was the Jedi.
Luke knew that Jedi could fall. He'd learned this from Obi-wan. Kenobi specifically voiced his feeling of failure for believing he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, and about Anakin falling to the dark side. Was Luke's takeaway there that the Jedi Order should end? And for all of Obi-wan's self-blame, did he sit around refusing Leia's "help me, Obi-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope?" No, he sprung into action despite his age. He risked, and ultimately gave, his life to help. That was Luke's example. We're supposed to believe after all that, there's one failure post-ROTJ and Luke's response is to let the Jedi die? Seriously? The guy who helped turn back Vader to the Light when supposedly the Dark Side would "forever dominate" one's path? I don't think so.
And that's why I love the end of the movie. Luke finally learned from his mistakes. He could stick to his non-violence, but still set an example that would ignite the galaxy.
He'd already done this in ROTJ. And not as a broken, bitter man seeking for death and calling for the Jedi to end.
From my perspective, given Luke's inaction in The Force Awakens, this is the ONLY thing that could have been done with him.
I'm glad he brought this up, because Rian Johnson has also spoken on feeling there was only one direction for him to go given what TFA showed us of Luke. I don't agree. Yoda and Obi-wan were two individuals who went into hiding and they had a whole lot more of a reason to be down on themselves. If any two would have been seeking death and wanting the Jedi to end, I might buy it from them. After all, Sidious was in their midst. They interacted with him often. Their student, Anakin, who was training under them since age 9 fell. Their Jedi Order, which was flourishing, was brought from thousands (tens of thousands?) down to a handful by the Purge. The Republic they were protectors for was turned into a dictatorship. They had every reason to feel sorry for themselvesr. But, as I said above, Kenobi went into action when called upon rather than moping around or being so melodramatic (or arrogant) to think his problems/mistakes should be scattered across the entire Order or the ideal it represented. That's where Johnson could have gone with Luke. Instead of waiting until late in the movie for Force Ghost Yoda to offer a couple minutes worth of obvious wisdom to pull Luke back, do that sooner. And it didn't need to be Yoda. Chewie and Artoo (with the latter playing Leia's message to Kenobi) would have been perfect way (perhaps in a single scene) to bring Luke to his senses and draw him into doing good for others and the galaxy.

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Posted: January 10th, 2018, 3:38 am
by Darth Bangkok
Good post.