Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by bango31 » January 5th, 2018, 8:57 am

I think, to state the obvious, Disney would have been much better served by selecting writers and directors ahead of time and fleshing out a coherent overall story arc much like the authors of the New Jedi Order book series did. While each author was free to explore the finer details of their own novels, there were parameters within which they had to operate; while others may feel differently, it created a fantastic narrative that stretched across 19 or 20 books. Instead, they decided to say f it and see what happens.

It's too late to change anything at this point, but what a tremendous oversight by Disney.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by bango31 » January 5th, 2018, 9:08 am

Master Magnus wrote:
January 4th, 2018, 2:56 pm
bango31 wrote:I couldn't agree more with the posts about the poor quality of the new books. I hated the Aftermath books. I thought Tarkin was quite good. Currently reading Phasma and I'm struggling to keep going. I don't know what it is with the present-tense, simplistic style but I do not like it.

I also agree that we shouldn't have to turn to secondary sources to flesh out the universe. The books, comics, and games should be supplementary at best. We shouldn't have to suffer through one bad trilogy of books after another to understand what the hell happened over the last 30 years.
Yes, I don't think the prose worked at all. I've read quite a few novels written in present tense, but the execution in the Aftermath book was horrible. There were also the references to Earthly life that took me out of the story.
I just read a chapter in "Phasma" where the one character said a protein pack "tastes like chicken."

WHEN DID CHICKENS MIGRATE TO THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Magnus » January 6th, 2018, 5:32 am

bango31 wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:08 am
Master Magnus wrote:
January 4th, 2018, 2:56 pm
bango31 wrote:I couldn't agree more with the posts about the poor quality of the new books. I hated the Aftermath books. I thought Tarkin was quite good. Currently reading Phasma and I'm struggling to keep going. I don't know what it is with the present-tense, simplistic style but I do not like it.

I also agree that we shouldn't have to turn to secondary sources to flesh out the universe. The books, comics, and games should be supplementary at best. We shouldn't have to suffer through one bad trilogy of books after another to understand what the hell happened over the last 30 years.
Yes, I don't think the prose worked at all. I've read quite a few novels written in present tense, but the execution in the Aftermath book was horrible. There were also the references to Earthly life that took me out of the story.
I just read a chapter in "Phasma" where the one character said a protein pack "tastes like chicken."

WHEN DID CHICKENS MIGRATE TO THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE?
Well, the Star Wars novelization mentioned ducks and dogs, but I can forgive that given its age. The Aftermath-trilogy was far worse with its references to snow globes, hamsters, direct references to Earth mythology and modern American slang. The writing is also atrocious:
She's spinning, once more winding through the air, this time in an uncontrolled spiral, but she does have some control.
So, she (Norra) was spinning in an uncontrolled spiral, but still had "some control"? Which is it?

It also suffers from superfluous descriptions:
The TIE wibbles and wobbles through the air, careening drunkenly across the Myrrann rooftops - it zigzags herkily-jerkily out of sight
To get back on topic: I agree with many of the points in this video and I've also mentioned some of them: YouTube

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » January 6th, 2018, 5:10 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 5:32 am
Well, the Star Wars novelization mentioned ducks and dogs, but I can forgive that given its age. The Aftermath-trilogy was far worse with its references to snow globes, hamsters, direct references to Earth mythology and modern American slang. The writing is also atrocious:
She's spinning, once more winding through the air, this time in an uncontrolled spiral, but she does have some control.
So, she (Norra) was spinning in an uncontrolled spiral, but still had "some control"? Which is it?

It also suffers from superfluous descriptions:
The TIE wibbles and wobbles through the air, careening drunkenly across the Myrrann rooftops - it zigzags herkily-jerkily out of sight
Are you serious? :laugh: :lol: Oh, man...I'm staying away from the novels.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Magnus » January 7th, 2018, 3:32 pm

^Yes. I had also hoped that the "Your mother" jokes would be confined to those novels, but alas...

According to The Digital Bits it's rumored that TLJ wil be released on DVD/Blu-Ray/4K Blu-Ray on March 27:
The Digital Bits

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by bango31 » January 8th, 2018, 6:53 pm

Master Magnus wrote:
January 7th, 2018, 3:32 pm
^Yes. I had also hoped that the "Your mother" jokes would be confined to those novels, but alas...

According to The Digital Bits it's rumored that TLJ wil be released on DVD/Blu-Ray/4K Blu-Ray on March 27:
The Digital Bits
That seems like a pretty quick turnaround, no?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Shrive » January 9th, 2018, 4:00 am

I don't think anyone's posted a link to this article, but I thought it was an interesting take on some of the events in TLJ: http://bigshinyrobot.com/60239/luke-sky ... last-jedi/

Not sure it will change anyone's minds about the quality of the storyline, but it might give people something to ponder.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » January 9th, 2018, 10:12 am

Master Shrive wrote:
January 9th, 2018, 4:00 am
I don't think anyone's posted a link to this article, but I thought it was an interesting take on some of the events in TLJ: http://bigshinyrobot.com/60239/luke-sky ... last-jedi/

Not sure it will change anyone's minds about the quality of the storyline, but it might give people something to ponder.
Thanks for posting that MS. Interesting read. Here are some quotes from the article and my thoughts:
And here he sees a darkness greater than anything he could have ever imagined. And a future where all of his loved ones are killed and the Jedi order he cared about burned to the ground. What happened the last time he was confronted with an image of this? The last time this happened, he was in the Death Star Throne Room and Vader taunted him with this vision of the future and he lost control. He ignited his saber out of instinct and fought. With rage and anger. But he pulled himself back from doing the thing he swore he wouldn't do: kill his own father. Then he tosses his lightsaber and says, essentially, "kill me if you have to, but I'll die like a Jedi."
Part of my problem here is that Luke went through these kinds of crises/experiences and learned from the within the OT. And that makes it frustrating to see an older Luke portrayed in a way that doesn't seem to fit with that. The author of this article asks "when was the last time he was confronted with this image" and answers that it was in the throne room in ROTJ. Look, Luke first encountered a vision of his friends in trouble in ESB and rushed out against Yoda's advice. We all saw how that went at the end. Though it has to be said, Luke handled himself well against Vader, heard a truth he ultimately needed to, and survived the encounter. In any case, Luke in ROTJ has learned from that experience. He senses/feels that he is a danger to his friends by being with them (as Vader can sense him), and turns himself over to Imperial forces. Incredible thing for someone to do. He has been told he has to kill Vader, but he senses good in him and is determined to pull him back. And when he experiences rage and hate, and realizes it, he tosses his saber aside and is proud to accept death to stay true to the Light.

So in the OT, he's already been the impetuous young Jedi rushing into action without thinking (ESB), and then when he faces danger again in ROTJ, its with a cooler head, calmer, wiser. Consider how noble he is in ROTJ: Turning himself in to avoid endangering his friends; determined to not kill Vader but turn him to the Light; recognizing being on the verge of strking in hate and tossing his saber away. Again, I don't believe in the Luke of TLJ as an extension of this character.
Now, he goes to Ben's hut and sees that future all over again. And, as before, his saber ignites. And this is startling to him. He's instantly ashamed of himself and must deal with the consequence of that split-second consideration. We know he'd NEVER kill his nephew. Ben doesn't. Some have said that Luke wouldn't consider this again, but facing the Dark side of yourself isn't a "one time and it's over thing." It's a constant. We learn and we grow and we constantly have to reevaluate that.
Yes, we learn and grow. As I pointed out above, Luke was learning and growing in the OT. There's all this talk of the darkness Luke sensed in Ben. Hey, Vader was remarkably dark. Luke wasn't focused on the darkness he was sensing from Vader, but on the LIght and the chance to save him. I don't buy into Luke not sensing/recognizing the conflict and Light within him that could be grown.
And here's where Luke decided it was ultimately the right thing for the Galaxy to end the Jedi and quit the Force. Because these cycles of violence will happen between good and evil jockeying for power. And the constant in Luke's view was the Jedi.
Luke knew that Jedi could fall. He'd learned this from Obi-wan. Kenobi specifically voiced his feeling of failure for believing he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, and about Anakin falling to the dark side. Was Luke's takeaway there that the Jedi Order should end? And for all of Obi-wan's self-blame, did he sit around refusing Leia's "help me, Obi-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope?" No, he sprung into action despite his age. He risked, and ultimately gave, his life to help. That was Luke's example. We're supposed to believe after all that, there's one failure post-ROTJ and Luke's response is to let the Jedi die? Seriously? The guy who helped turn back Vader to the Light when supposedly the Dark Side would "forever dominate" one's path? I don't think so.
And that's why I love the end of the movie. Luke finally learned from his mistakes. He could stick to his non-violence, but still set an example that would ignite the galaxy.
He'd already done this in ROTJ. And not as a broken, bitter man seeking for death and calling for the Jedi to end.
From my perspective, given Luke's inaction in The Force Awakens, this is the ONLY thing that could have been done with him.
I'm glad he brought this up, because Rian Johnson has also spoken on feeling there was only one direction for him to go given what TFA showed us of Luke. I don't agree. Yoda and Obi-wan were two individuals who went into hiding and they had a whole lot more of a reason to be down on themselves. If any two would have been seeking death and wanting the Jedi to end, I might buy it from them. After all, Sidious was in their midst. They interacted with him often. Their student, Anakin, who was training under them since age 9 fell. Their Jedi Order, which was flourishing, was brought from thousands (tens of thousands?) down to a handful by the Purge. The Republic they were protectors for was turned into a dictatorship. They had every reason to feel sorry for themselvesr. But, as I said above, Kenobi went into action when called upon rather than moping around or being so melodramatic (or arrogant) to think his problems/mistakes should be scattered across the entire Order or the ideal it represented. That's where Johnson could have gone with Luke. Instead of waiting until late in the movie for Force Ghost Yoda to offer a couple minutes worth of obvious wisdom to pull Luke back, do that sooner. And it didn't need to be Yoda. Chewie and Artoo (with the latter playing Leia's message to Kenobi) would have been perfect way (perhaps in a single scene) to bring Luke to his senses and draw him into doing good for others and the galaxy.
Last edited by borgmatrix on January 31st, 2018, 9:27 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Darth Bangkok » January 10th, 2018, 3:38 am

Good post.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Shrive » January 26th, 2018, 4:16 am

Yeah fair points there, especially about Kenobi and Yoda both bouncing back (so to speak) despite what they had been through. I do feel like the ST could have been handled much better and more coherently from the start. I guess we've still got one more movie to see where it all goes.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by thepepgal » January 26th, 2018, 1:51 pm

I watched TLJ again today. Luke has several levels.

On the surface, he does appear broken. Luke does test Rey's desire to become a jedi. Seeing how strong she was in the Force was very similar to Yoda in ESB. Yoda wasn't going to train Luke and only agreed after Obi Wan convinced him. Luke's strength in the Force at the end of the film shows he had read the original jedi text. To project his presence over that distance and appear solid. was a skill that Yoda hadn't taught him. I agree with Luke in that him returning wouldn't make the First Order disappear. The propaganda of Luke being able to do more, meant that had he returned that hope from the universe would have died.

He only starts to use the Force after Snoke's death. I feel Luke believed he couldn't defeat Snoke. This is very similar to Yoda who hid from Palpatine. Yoda knew from Obi Wan's death to Vader meant he could defeat both of the Sith alone. He appearance at the end showed how he kept the hope alive and allowed the others to survive.

Yoda is the one I have issues with as it was wrong. Yoda had hid on Dagobah so he was exactly like Luke in hiding after his failure. Yoda hadn't passed on the lesson of failure to Luke. The visit into the tree for Luke was mirrored by Rey's visit to the cave. Yoda had watched Rey take the Jedi texts before she left on the Falcon, so destroying the tree became symbolic. He let Luke lie to him as Luke wouldn't have known that the text were the Jedi's unless Luke had read them. To then continue the lie but telling Luke they were page turners was out of character.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » January 31st, 2018, 10:36 am

Thanks for the post! Some comments below.
thepepgal wrote:
January 26th, 2018, 1:51 pm
I agree with Luke in that him returning wouldn't make the First Order disappear. The propaganda of Luke being able to do more, meant that had he returned that hope from the universe would have died.
I agree that Luke returning wouldn't make the First Order disappear. I don't think that ever would have been the expectation. Back in ANH, Leia wasn't looking for Kenobi to single-handedly bring down the Empire. But there was a larger war, and everyone could potentially play a valuable role. And Ben did.

Regarding returning that hope, I still feel like we took two movies here to get us to where we already were at the end of ROTJ. Luke was the "new hope" of the first movie's title, and he represented the "Return of the Jedi" at the end of episode VI, poised to be the first of a new wave of Jedi. We already had that. We already had Luke as a positive symbol of hope. Weakly trashing his character with the new movies just to have him re-emerge as a figure of hope...eh, its a waste.
He only starts to use the Force after Snoke's death. I feel Luke believed he couldn't defeat Snoke. This is very similar to Yoda who hid from Palpatine. Yoda knew from Obi Wan's death to Vader meant he could defeat both of the Sith alone. He appearance at the end showed how he kept the hope alive and allowed the others to survive.
I understand Yoda's situation, especially with ROTS. He had a window to get at Sidious. He tried. He failed. After that, Sidious holed himself away, well-guarded and practically untouchable. Meanwhile Yoda, as a surviving Jedi, had to hide as he'd be hunted.

Like I said in my post above, I can understand Yoda and Obi-wan being down on themselves for their perceived failures. I see Luke's situation as different. It's post-ROTJ. The Empire had been defeated. There was a new government and Republic. Snoke would still be hard to get at, but who knows what Luke thought of him. It wasn't Snoke standing over Ben with ignited saber. And that's what Luke ran from, hiding out after that rather than trying to do something about his own mistake. Again...not the character we knew from the OT.
Yoda is the one I have issues with as it was wrong. Yoda had hid on Dagobah so he was exactly like Luke in hiding after his failure. Yoda hadn't passed on the lesson of failure to Luke. The visit into the tree for Luke was mirrored by Rey's visit to the cave. Yoda had watched Rey take the Jedi texts before she left on the Falcon, so destroying the tree became symbolic. He let Luke lie to him as Luke wouldn't have known that the text were the Jedi's unless Luke had read them. To then continue the lie but telling Luke they were page turners was out of character.
I'm not completely sure what you're getting at here, so maybe you could clarify it for me? I think the dialogue between Yoda and Luke regarding the texts was just the larger idea that texts aren't everything. There's practical experience and real experience that can mean more than just dry studying. For Yoda's part, he knew Rey had taken the books and hence the hint of that with Yoda saying Rey "has everything she needs." So ultimately, I think Yoda recognizes the importance of both: learning/studying through books as well as in other ways.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by thepepgal » January 31st, 2018, 4:39 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
January 31st, 2018, 10:36 am
I'm not completely sure what you're getting at here, so maybe you could clarify it for me? I think the dialogue between Yoda and Luke regarding the texts was just the larger idea that texts aren't everything. There's practical experience and real experience that can mean more than just dry studying. For Yoda's part, he knew Rey had taken the books and hence the hint of that with Yoda saying Rey "has everything she needs." So ultimately, I think Yoda recognizes the importance of both: learning/studying through books as well as in other ways.
Yoda's appearance was one of the things that felt out of place and written by someone who hadn't watched the OT. He questioned Luke asking if he had read the texts. Luke could have hid anywhere in the universe so to choose a Jedi Temple means it had more than one purpose. The last scenes show Luke expanded his knowledge by learning to close himself off from the force so others couldn't sense him and he learnt to project himself over a great distance. This proves that Luke had expanded his knowledge and from the evidence we currently have, the texts are the only source for this knowledge. Yoda questioned how Luke had trained others. We never saw Yoda discuss Yoda's failure at the end of the Clone Wars with Luke. Yoda passed on knowledge that Luke needed to believe to succeed. My other comment acknowledged that Yoda had known that Rey had taken the texts. Destroying the tree was to hide Rey's act from Luke, even though Yoda does give the cryptic clue for Luke to work out.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Magnus » February 1st, 2018, 12:08 am

thepepgal wrote:
January 31st, 2018, 4:39 pm
Yoda's appearance was one of the things that felt out of place and written by someone who hadn't watched the OT.
And it was "crazy" Yoda that he used as a test for Luke. Yoda did not act that way before or since. And the puppet looked awful and nothing like either in the OT or PT.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » February 1st, 2018, 10:10 am

thepepgal wrote:
January 31st, 2018, 4:39 pm
Yoda's appearance was one of the things that felt out of place and written by someone who hadn't watched the OT.
Master Magnus wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 12:08 am
And it was "crazy" Yoda that he used as a test for Luke. Yoda did not act that way before or since. And the puppet looked awful and nothing like either in the OT or PT.
People involved with the movie have stated the original mold was used to re-create the puppet. Maybe I need to pull out ESB again, but it looked fine to my eyes. But maybe I'm not discerning enough there.
He questioned Luke asking if he had read the texts. Luke could have hid anywhere in the universe so to choose a Jedi Temple means it had more than one purpose. The last scenes show Luke expanded his knowledge by learning to close himself off from the force so others couldn't sense him and he learnt to project himself over a great distance. This proves that Luke had expanded his knowledge and from the evidence we currently have, the texts are the only source for this knowledge. Yoda questioned how Luke had trained others. We never saw Yoda discuss Yoda's failure at the end of the Clone Wars with Luke. Yoda passed on knowledge that Luke needed to believe to succeed. My other comment acknowledged that Yoda had known that Rey had taken the texts. Destroying the tree was to hide Rey's act from Luke, even though Yoda does give the cryptic clue for Luke to work out.
I understood them using "crazy" Yoda as a nod to ESB and to recapture some of that flavor. I think its fair to say, as MM has, that Yoda was testing Luke there and so how appropriate was it to see Yoda acting like that again. But, on the other hand, I can also Yoda going back to that act to pull Luke back from the same kind of hard-headed nonsense we saw from him in ESB.

I don't see any reason for Yoda to get into his own "failures", especially since Luke got plenty of that from Obi-wan in the OT and was aware of what happened to the Republic and the Jedi Order. Luke was already mired in wrongheaded thinking and Yoda didn't need to further that by going there.

My larger issue is that Rian Johnson has spoken about using Yoda here as someone who Luke had an emotional connection with in the OT to come in and give Luke the kick in the ass he needed. Here are some quotes from this article:
“Given Luke’s story, it makes sense that his old master would come back and kick his butt, to get him back into the fight.
“That led to the fact that the Yoda whom Luke has an emotional connection with, was in the original trilogy.
“That’s the last time they saw each other. That led me to say ‘Let’s re-create the puppet from the original trilogy.’
“Neil [Scanlan, the creature supervisor] and his team found the original mold and meticulously re-created the puppet.”
My problem with that is that I see Artoo and Chewie having as much of an emotional connection, if not more, and just didn't buy into Luke brushing off those two, but then responding to a couple minutes of basic, obvious truths from Yoda. I'd have preferred if they dropped the Yoda scene, and earlier when Chewie busted down Luke's door, to have Artoo there as well. I'd have loved to have seen Chewie put his hands around Luke's neck (like with Lando) and for Artoo in that scene to show the "Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi" recording. That, to me, would have been a great place to have Luke knocked to his senses, and then to utilize him more meaningfully the rest of the movie.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Magnus » February 1st, 2018, 1:02 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 10:10 am
thepepgal wrote:
January 31st, 2018, 4:39 pm
Yoda's appearance was one of the things that felt out of place and written by someone who hadn't watched the OT.
Master Magnus wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 12:08 am
And it was "crazy" Yoda that he used as a test for Luke. Yoda did not act that way before or since. And the puppet looked awful and nothing like either in the OT or PT.
People involved with the movie have stated the original mold was used to re-create the puppet. Maybe I need to pull out ESB again, but it looked fine to my eyes. But maybe I'm not discerning enough there.
His head looked squashed, in the lack of a better word and looked awful.

EDIT: I looked around and you were quite correct, they used the original mold. However, I also found a YouTube video (without footage from TLJ of course) that shows the mold. The creator wrote in the description that he thought Yoda looked like a "squashed grape" in TLJ and as I think he looked squashed as well, I think that's a fitting description. The creator speculates that CG was used to enhance the Yoda puppet, but offers no evidence (it could be the mold as well): YouTube

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by thepepgal » February 1st, 2018, 1:18 pm

When I said Yoda's appearance, I meant that he was in the film. I did think he looked slightly off but that was never my big issue with him. I wonder if the mould had been affected by age for it to change the look of the puppet.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Magnus » February 1st, 2018, 2:06 pm

thepepgal wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 1:18 pm
When I said Yoda's appearance, I meant that he was in the film. I did think he looked slightly off but that was never my big issue with him. I wonder if the mould had been affected by age for it to change the look of the puppet.
Of course, I know that! My main point was to further what you said about "...written by someone who hadn't watched the OT" as Yoda acted like "crazy Yoda" which he only did when he tested Luke in TESB. He doesn't joke anymore after that in the OT and the closest he came in the PT was when he said: "Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing, how embarrassing!" in AOTC. Again, it feels like someone who didn't watch (or rather didn't pay attention when watching) the OT. His physical appearance was a sidenote, but I found it annoying as well as the exaggerated motions of his cane (just as if saying: "Hey look, there's a puppeteer down there!")

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by thepepgal » February 2nd, 2018, 5:05 pm

I know Mags you addressed the points to Yoda and your last post says what I was feeling better than I did. Both you and Borgmatrix use my comment to first discuss the physical appearance of Yoda as being my issue. I felt that my comment may have been misunderstood. This is why I posted the clarification.

In a way, this shows that again the writers have rolled back the character development to their first appearance like Han and Leia.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » February 5th, 2018, 11:19 am

thepepgal wrote:
February 2nd, 2018, 5:05 pm
In a way, this shows that again the writers have rolled back the character development to their first appearance like Han and Leia.
Though as you've both pointed out, its been haphazard and without the requisite thought. A lot of the callbacks just felt superficial to me, and without the depth/emotion deserved. Almost perfunctory. For example, Artoo plays the recording of Leia's "Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi..." and that received the obvious, expected audience response. But what'd they do with it beyond showing it? It was like seconds of screentime and then they moved on. We hardly saw Artoo after that. And this was after him being the droid version of catatonic in the previous movie because of Luke's absence. I wouldn't have been surprised if Artoo had short-circuited or self-destructed in TLJ at the way he was dismissed by Luke. But there was no exploration at all. Brief scene and the movie moved on.

Something just felt off about the whole thing.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by thepepgal » February 20th, 2018, 2:04 pm

Digital release of TLJ is 13 March with 4k, bluray and dvd on 27 March.

http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars- ... comes-home
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » February 21st, 2018, 8:27 am

thepepgal wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 2:04 pm
Digital release of TLJ is 13 March with 4k, bluray and dvd on 27 March.
I doubt I'll be picking it up. Unless I hear there's a very compelling commentary track from Rian Johnson explaining his creative choices.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by toVor » February 23rd, 2018, 1:42 am

I'm not sure I'm going to get the DVD either. It's so strange that I've only seen this flick 2 times in the theater. Hell, I saw TPM over a dozen times in the theaters and it had its faults.
"Your focus determines your reality." --Qui-Gon Jinn
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." --John Lennon
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." --Carl Sagan

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borgmatrix
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by borgmatrix » February 23rd, 2018, 8:58 am

toVor wrote:
February 23rd, 2018, 1:42 am
I'm not sure I'm going to get the DVD either. It's so strange that I've only seen this flick 2 times in the theater. Hell, I saw TPM over a dozen times in the theaters and it had its faults.
I saw TLJ 3 times, which for me is a lot, and almost saw it a 4th time but just had no enthusiasm/interest to get through another viewing.

Master Kinnon
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Kinnon » February 26th, 2018, 2:56 pm

Saw it in the pics and loved it. Will be getting the novelisation and for sure getting the DVD. Personally thought it was a good addition to the the saga. Better than TFA in my opinion.

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Rollafett
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Rollafett » March 8th, 2018, 4:15 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 10:10 am
My problem with that is that I see Artoo and Chewie having as much of an emotional connection, if not more, and just didn't buy into Luke brushing off those two, but then responding to a couple minutes of basic, obvious truths from Yoda. I'd have preferred if they dropped the Yoda scene, and earlier when Chewie busted down Luke's door, to have Artoo there as well. I'd have loved to have seen Chewie put his hands around Luke's neck (like with Lando) and for Artoo in that scene to show the "Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi" recording. That, to me, would have been a great place to have Luke knocked to his senses, and then to utilize him more meaningfully the rest of the movie.
I ADORE this idea. Chewie and R2 are already getting left out of enough of these news flicks...that would've been a great way to both kick Luke in the ass and give them more screen-time. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy to see Yoda as well but he could've been utilized differently.
"All right, look, there's only one "Return," okay, and it ain't "of the King," it's "of the Jedi."

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Rollafett
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Rollafett » March 8th, 2018, 4:29 pm

borgmatrix wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 11:19 am
Though as you've both pointed out, its been haphazard and without the requisite thought. A lot of the callbacks just felt superficial to me, and without the depth/emotion deserved. Almost perfunctory. For example, Artoo plays the recording of Leia's "Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi..." and that received the obvious, expected audience response. But what'd they do with it beyond showing it? It was like seconds of screentime and then they moved on. We hardly saw Artoo after that. And this was after him being the droid version of catatonic in the previous movie because of Luke's absence. I wouldn't have been surprised if Artoo had short-circuited or self-destructed in TLJ at the way he was dismissed by Luke. But there was no exploration at all. Brief scene and the movie moved on.

Something just felt off about the whole thing.
You ain't wrong. I know this entire trilogy is partly a farewell to the original trilogy heroes, but I still see them getting far too little screen-time. Han dominates the film pretty much and even he didn't show up until the 40 minute mark (IIRC). Leia has a small role in the film and doesn't show up up until when....more than an hour in? Luke and R2 are basically not even in TFA and 3PO is practically a cameo. I thought Chewie received proper screen-time, but the horrible error of having Leia and him not console each other after Han's death is unforgivable.
In TLJ they introduce this casino city and Johnson says after the fact that he couldn't come up with a way to incorporate Lando in the film at all? Really? Baffling. Hell, couldn't he have been on the receiving end of Leia's distress call while they were on Krait? Something, c'mon!
Now we go into EP IX and the big three are all gone already. For the most part, I like these films, but it is strange how they're piece-mealing this trilogy together.
And now I'm babbling. Like old times.
"All right, look, there's only one "Return," okay, and it ain't "of the King," it's "of the Jedi."

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toVor
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by toVor » March 10th, 2018, 2:25 am

I almost hate to say this, that which the prequel haters uttered ad nauseoum aimed at George Lucas, but it's almost nearly true: Ryan Johnson raped my childhood.
"Your focus determines your reality." --Qui-Gon Jinn
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." --John Lennon
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." --Carl Sagan

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Master Magnus
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by Master Magnus » March 10th, 2018, 6:55 am

borgmatrix wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 10:10 am
My problem with that is that I see Artoo and Chewie having as much of an emotional connection, if not more, and just didn't buy into Luke brushing off those two, but then responding to a couple minutes of basic, obvious truths from Yoda. I'd have preferred if they dropped the Yoda scene, and earlier when Chewie busted down Luke's door, to have Artoo there as well. I'd have loved to have seen Chewie put his hands around Luke's neck (like with Lando) and for Artoo in that scene to show the "Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi" recording. That, to me, would have been a great place to have Luke knocked to his senses, and then to utilize him more meaningfully the rest of the movie.
I loath the ST's handling of C-3PO and R2-D2. According to Lucas, the story is told through their eyes and reducing them to cameos in the saga movies is unforgivable.

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thepepgal
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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS ALLOWED)

Post by thepepgal » March 10th, 2018, 5:21 pm

Mags Dont you mean ST and not PT?

I dislike the lack of use of R2 and C3PO but I think this has to do with the writers not knowing what to do. The writers kept the big three apart in Ep8 so we missed seeing their chemistry together. Due to age and his health, they kept Kenny Baker out of the suit so R2 couldn't have his same personality. Without R2, C3PO didn't have his straight man to play against. The writers perceived C3PO as being annoying and a one card trick in quoting the odds. They replaced R2 with BB-8 to be able to sell more merchandise as most SW collectors already have a R2 in their life.
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